Lost Freshies and Ignorant Desis: The daft segregation
Posted on 25 November 2008 by Naushad Reza
For the next few weeks Barack Obama will be mentioned in every conversation, article and educated debate for his gallant stance in history. A black man in the White House has taught us about many changes that are possible in the globalised multicultural civilization. The most appealing message of his achievement has to be the triumph over centuries of struggle against segregation and inequality.
“I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the colour of their skin, but by the content of their character…” Â shouted Martin Luther King Jr. in his historical speech. The discrimination that British Asians still face from the native British is clearly undeniable; I could write a massive chronicle on it from my experience alone. However, brushing through incidents from my seven years of abode in the UK, I would fundamentally like to highlight a particular segregation I have noticed that does not concern race, but a conflict of generations of the same community.
There is a futile schism in the British Asian community itself; an internal plague festering among this so-called united society. It is the invisible wall between the Desis (the Asians born and brought up in UK) and the Freshies (the new immigrant generation).
Let me start with a minor niche among the Freshies: Â they have the luxury of ignoring the division along their journey of a temporary British lifestyle. They are mainly the students leading a lavish life, frequently digging their hands deep into Daddy’s pockets in times of insignificant financial predicament. This generation is neither here for a Red Passport, nor for a change in lifestyle. In due time, they will fly back home to live the same lavish life they are so accustomed to.
The matter is, however, serious for those first generation immigrants labelled Freshies, who have arrived on this land with hopes for a better future. You can see them around you - frying your chips at KFC, bagging your groceries at Tesco, or serving your much-loved curry at your favourite Indian restaurant. I am writing on behalf of this very generation; to those, life itself is a struggle. They certainly do not deserve a cold shoulder from people from the same community but of British birth.
From experience, I can boldly claim that diversity in the same community is vividly existent.  These so called Freshies are looked down upon by a certain number of Desis on absolutely absurd bases. One of the main reasons is a very slight dissimilarity in culture. Clearly one should not expect the Freshies to dine on fish and chips as soon as they get off the plane.  Another (and the most illogical and atrocious) boundary has been created based on a Freshie’s lack of verbal communicational fluency. I have even witnessed some narrow minded Desis’ amusement in their mockery of Freshie accents. Clearly the fact that it takes a while to grasp the ‘innit though’ format of conversation is lost on the Desi.
The irony is that some of these very same Brit-Desis are busy setting up franchises of Asian cultural establishments to celebrate their charade of love for Asian heritage. I have had the privilege of attending various Bangladesh Societies in quite a large number of Colleges. In one of them, just to test the foundation of the platform they stood upon, I asked one of the co-founders of the society the year of Independence of Bangladesh. Not to my surprise, the answer was an awkward silence which spoke volumes.
Obviously, the purpose of highlighting this issue is not to ignite a row over the already slipshod situation, but to write off the negative vibe hemming over First Generation Economical Immigrants. I believe this is a matter that should be taken into account, I have seen friends skipping a day’s meal and choosing buses over tubes to save that extra few pounds for the sky-high international academic fees; I have seen fellow Asians working way below minimum wage just to afford the roof over their heads. They too deserve cohesion and recognition in the British Asian community.
I believe there are open-minded Desis who would be ready to acknowledge the issue and do whatever it takes to eliminate this unnecessary internal diversity. I am not pointing fingers at anyone as everybody is not to blame, apart from a few confused and ignorant breed of Ms Jalebis and Mr McAloos who are balancing on a thin rope of Asian and British melange. In other words, to the confused Desis who refuse to see the bigger picture and form narrow-minded opinions derived from their Chicken Tikka Masala heritage (a British “South Asian” dish that does not exist in South Asia).
Obama’s mark in history is the perceptible proof that any challenging change, if vital, could be made possible. In due time, with mutual understanding and realisation, I believe this issue can be resolved too. Â Just to conclude with a piece of advice for the narrow-minded Desis - If you still fail to decipher the problem, there is an easy solution: look closer to home. Sit down with your parents and ask what they or their forefathers went through when they first arrived in this country. Were they not Freshies then? If this absurd affliction is not granted a serious thought, be prepared for the same vicious cycle- some of the descendants of these so called Freshies (the next generation Red Passport Desis) will establish the same invisible barrier for the next generation Freshies.
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November 25th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Wonderfully orchestrated…
Most touchy words I read coming here… People ask us…what u r? I heard so many definition of FRESHIE….I better describe myself as an ECONOMIC MIGRANT…still on DAD’s pocket (:P)
Thank u KAYNATH for posting it on FB…
I m Elated n TOUCHED by a fellows thought…
November 25th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Beautifully written.
Question: Why does this barrier exist?
November 25th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Great article, loved it!
November 25th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Thanks to Naushad for an article full of nuance and sensitivity. I’ve been on both sides of the divide. As a student, I did every kind of odd job you could throw at me. Petrol station attendant? Check. Internet shop employee? Check. Busboy for a catering firm? Check. Call centre telesales guy? Check and check! I must have done over a dozen different jobs during those years, mainly because my father wasn’t rich, and the meagre stipend from the uni could only go part-way towards paying for tuition — forget about living costs!
Indeed, if it wasn’t for the occasional charity of friends and neighbours, I would never have made it this far. A neighbouring family from Dhaka fed me two meals a day for a whole month as I was finishing up my thesis cos they knew I was worse than broke and couldn’t afford to work at the time — even though they themselves were struggling migrants, living every day on the edge of destitution. And yet they threw open the doors of their generosity when my back was to the wall.
This stands in stark contrast to the reaction of British Bengalis, both long-established uncles and aunties and their offspring. The elder generation of UK citizens viewed us with suspicion as to our true motives and our educational qualifications. Their kids, the young British Bengalis, viewed us with barely-disguised contempt, whether it was for our accent or our clothes or our un-gelled hair, I can hardly tell. In all the time that I’ve been here, I’ve met at most 5 or 6 British-Bengali kids who took you as you were, interacted with you as one human being to another, without prior assumptions or prejudice. Indeed, I’ve got tons more friends who are European or American or African compared to the local deshis. At least, those guys give every human their due respect.
So now that my luck has turned (praise the lord) and I have finished my studies and have a fairly well-paid job in the City, I bear in mind a couple of things. One - those boys and girls who hand out papers in the street, in front of the tube stations of the West End and the City every evening, they are the same as me. The Tesco attendants and the Burger King employees, they are my brothers and sisters. They are struggling daily and they may sink or swim in the end. Either way, they deserve every respect from me, regardless of their poor English or their accent.
As for the British Bengalis here, they remain a breed apart, many of them riddled with prejudice, contempt and rank ignorance. Not surprisingly, most people that I know (including myself) have ZERO desire to get to know them any better or form friendships with that crew. The two breeds I think are best off staying separate.
November 25th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
respect to a kind mind..
love this bit.
“I am not pointing fingers at anyone as everybody is not to blame, apart from a few confused and ignorant breed of Ms Jalebis and Mr McAloos who are balancing on a thin rope of Asian and British melange.”
November 25th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
I agree with your article. But I’d like to point one thing out - the word “Desi” refers to one from the “Des.” That word applies to all brownies (Indians, Pakistanis, Sri Lankans, Bengalis). But this article says it refers to Indians born & brought up in the UK. Well, I don’t live in the UK, but if that’s the case, you’re misusing the word. Haha.
In the USA, we have NRI (Non-Resident Indian) and then the more offensive FOB (Fresh off the boat)…..and even more offensive ABCD (American Born Confused Desi). Desi is a word that generally refers to people in ALL groups.
November 25th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
Eloquent and worthy of reading - best article on ID by far
Naushad, if you read my comments on Lady Jalebi’s most recent article - you can see that I echo your points completely. (http://www.insidedesi.com/lifestyle/fresh-desh/
The ‘I’m a British Asian and higher and mightier than a freshie’ is a cringe worthy and regressive attitude to have and exhibit and unfortunately some of us justify it over and over again under the shoddy umbrella of ‘freedom to have an opinion’ - bull****!
Its so infuriating and complete lack of acknowledgment, respect and comprehension of the ‘real’ differences and the reasoning behind the presence of such migrants is the result of their narrow opinions.
In response to Lady J’s, in my opinion, limited opinion of the cons of marrying a freshie -
——————-Mushroom Says: November 6th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
“Lady J - try speed dating in ambala - that might get you somewhere. You can choose from the gajar halwa, or the ladoo or maybe the desi guy behind teh counter who makes you cringe because he is a ‘freshie’ and isnt good enough for you but in fact, in spirit, is going through the same bullsh** white washed prejudice that your father went through when he came to the UK and served poppadoms or cut leather or held the stall at Whitechapel Market.
the difference is, this time, a desi is dishing out the reductivism. ”
—————————————
Anyways, Its a shame really that such misguided preconceptions exist amongst a race of people who should know better after picking themselves up in the afterbirth of colonialism.
November 25th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
p.s. no offence ID - but Naushad - you should be writing for more out of the box publications. Your opinions are clearly not ‘inside desi’.
;)
bite me!
November 25th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Very good article… i have to admit i was once ignorant along with a few others, but have most definetly learnt. I’m married to someone from back home and have seen the struggle. And its not like they have bad intentions, they throw their life/childhood & friends away so they can make a better living for their families back home.
November 25th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
nice read
but perennial debate of any ‘multicultural’ society
its like, fredrick douglass all over…but less whipping :)
November 25th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
wonderfull artice ,people like us had to face two kind of recisim this sociaty one white skin who atleast show some respect and the other group is our same skin but brought up here who love to thik they born in haven try to prove thmselves as english as possible
nice article thank u.
November 25th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Love it and love YOU brother!! Go take over the world now :p X
November 25th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
Very interesting reading. The issue is somewhat tropical and needs careful treatment when faced with it. I have been a ‘victim’ of the institutional racism as highlighted in the article. Those days are behind me and the ‘desis’ in questions are no one else but some of my very close relatives and friends. In my opinion the division exists not because there is a fundamental difference in appearance but there is an invisible sense of inequality created by ‘Desis’ purely based on the ability. Now I have never been able to see the way they see life (thanks god for that!) so unable to comment why they are lead to believe that they are superior to people that are ‘Non domiciled’ (Do not like the word ‘Freshie’)
Initially I found it quite amusing when I first encountered the institutional racism but sooner it felt distasteful. One of the most difficult tasks is to be able to defend yourself but it becomes more difficult when English isn’t your first language. Nevertheless the consequences (i.e. deportation) you may be faced with should things go slightly or entirely out of our hands! Therefore ‘Non- UK born migrants” are always reluctant to defend themselves if you like and thus stigma of being a ‘Freshie’ continues.
I have been living in the UK for the last 8 years. Unlike other fellow student brothers I have strong family tie in the UK and to an extent a more solid ground beneath me. I was still unable to express my discontentment simply because of the language barrier at that time. Slowly but surely I have whizzed passed narrow minded ‘Desi’ brothers/sisters whom focus their entire life wasting their parents hard earn money or cursing in their flashy cars with rowdy exhausts system.
I had seen some of them falling just like their falling trousers; the very same people tend to hide their faces in their hoods these days when confronted, for falling short of their parents requirements.
I now have a reasonable job with real future potential to prosper (Inshallah). I haven’t forgotten the no of customers I had to serve on a daily basis or to empty the warehouse which otherwise be full of cages. I haven’t forgotten the 100’s of hours of overtime over the holiday period to make up the deficit for tuition fees or a pair of cheap trainers what ever it may have been.
The author asked you to ask your parents to find out what they have gone through in their life when first arrived in the UK, I will pledge you to ask one addition question to them ”Would you rather have a hard working freshie as a son as oppose to a worthless, drug addicted, confused, narrow minded Desi?
November 25th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Once again, a highly UN-intelligent piece that is overdone, vague, and most of all, has a serious tendency to polarise and over-stereotypefy.
Lazy research, no case studies, it seems like you had one preconceived idea that stemmed from some short-lived whimsical sentiment and wanted to vent some bitter spleen.
Nothing revolutionary at all. Vaguely credible. I’m sick of reading this drab.
November 25th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
I thought it was a valid article but I’m hating all the sterotyping and generalisations. People should treat each other with respect regardless of where they come from or what they do, it’s what decent human beings do. I think if people cannot relate or understand another person, perhaps through ignorance or intolerance then this is where the divide stems from. I see just as many ‘freshies’ making fun of ‘desis’ as the other way around. Lets not judge, and instead extend the hand of friendship, respect and acceptance to everyone.
Peace x
November 25th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
A very superficial article, which makes bold claims and yet is not backed with any substantial evidence apart from anecdotes.
I am a British Bangladesh and I am against Freshis. Now me and my friends DO NOT class economic migrants as Freshis. The Freshis are those here, mainly via marriage, and do not want to assimilate. They want to work in the shadow economy and not pay their fair due of taxes and contributions to the state. More flagrantly, they claim support benefits on top of their cash in hand income!
When a girl walks past them, they perv on them as if they were about to devour the girl. Our Freshi doesn’t understand English and does not want to bother with learning the language because he is living in Bangla Town.
I do not think those living in East London, more specifically Tower Hamlets, truly understand what a Freshi is. In a nutshell a Freshi is a leech!
November 25th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
Using the word “Freshie” is insulting and abusing.This word is used here repeatedly.Should stop using this word.
November 25th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
sorry to come back again in this so called desi’s article….AHSAN vhai…i really dont know who you are but the fact and issues and the question at the end that u have asked ….i salute u “BROVA”(word for the pretending freshies or may be desi’s)..Sorry should be “Brother”.
I have been here in UK for only 2 years and must say “NO 1 dares to say me Freshie till now”(Alhamdulillah)…
I worked in many places for my living and educational expences for first 1 year…Even i was not paid in 1 indian restaurent for 4 months…the owner was a freshie Father of 2 British asian son…
Allah is the one who take cares and Alhamdulillah
“i am a graduate from UK ” not only that also i am doing very professional and top class Job in the UK that is honestly a dream for any1…
Now the funny things….I have my very close relatives living in the UK.
What these desi’s dont like or say cant stand for..
1.If u r very qualified and doing some thing better they become jelous.They start thinking,”what we have been doing here for last 30 years and about their drug addicted,hoody sons”
2.Once they see a very qualified boy in UK (though they are freshie) they will beg you for their daughter…YES…this is very true and i am going through this problem(Not a problem though,rather enjoying!!!)
Before i finish i want to Salute once more to AHSAN vhai and want to ask all the Desi’s….dont use the word “Freshie”..it hurts and if u hurt some1 Allah will never forgive u …
November 26th, 2008 at 12:09 am
Jumper:I dont think you misunderstood an article with a research project. Its merely his/mine experience expressed in a generalised form.
Abz: I thought your comments were more valid than the one by Jumper. Unfortunately, the word ‘Freshie’ is very subjective and therefore difficult task to define. i.e. a white person calling you a ‘Paki’. Now, your initial reaction would be he is being racist. I think you would not wait for a minute and think ”the guy is an idiot, doesn’t he know I am not pakistani?”. You would regard that as a racist comment because the context of the word ‘Paki’ is used by non-asians. The word ‘paki’ is generally used against people with brown skins. Similarly the word ‘Freshie’ is commonly used to describe the type of people who weren’t born here. The term I think only exists within the south-asian youth community (never heard it being used in any other community). I couldn’t agree more with the point you have made addressing the group of people you regard as being ‘Freshie’. I am ashamed to say but some of my cousins (who are Desis) have been through the worst case scenario in bringing shame to our family (Use your imagination). The point I was putting across is bad people are bad regardless their origin. I condemn all types of sin.
November 26th, 2008 at 12:21 am
So..Saif my fellow Phreshi brother,(Mind u I spelled it with PH instead of F) is there any feeling of pleasure,guilt or satisfaction thats still hiding somewhere within u..tell me..tell me..tell me..oh brother Saif….we wont judge U…I m just curious.
And JUMPER my friend please kindly explain ur explanations again, I found them rather interesting.Dont believe in what the rest are sayin about it…its all a lie.Trust me.
November 26th, 2008 at 12:30 am
Asif: I think you are in the heart of the article. But cant quite figure out which side are you in? You seem quite confused, unable to spell, use sarcasm in arguments….let me guess you are the ‘Desi’ we been wasting our evening on!
November 26th, 2008 at 12:33 am
Just to point out the following statements made in the article:
1) These so called Freshies are looked down upon by [A CERTAIN NUMBER OF DESIS] on absolutely absurd bases
2) I have even witnessed [SOME NARROW MINDED DESIS’] amusement in their mockery of Freshie accents.
3) The irony is that [SOME OF THESE VERY SAME BRIT-DESIS] are busy setting up franchises of Asian cultural establishments to celebrate their charade of love for Asian heritage.
4) [I BELIEVE THERE ARE OPEN-MINDED DESIS] who would be ready to acknowledge the issue and do whatever it takes to eliminate this unnecessary internal diversity. I am not pointing fingers at anyone as [EVERYBODY IS NOT TO BLAME, APART FROM A FEW CONFUSED AND IGNORANT BREED] of Ms Jalebis and Mr McAloos who are balancing on a thin rope of Asian and British melange
5) In other words, to [THE CONFUSED DESIS WHO REFUSE TO SEE THE BIGGER PICTURE] and form narrow-minded opinions
^^^
Sorry for the CapsLock, it is not intended as a bafooning voice-over or in any form of attack (although it may have that effect).
My point is to those who have slated this writer for ’stereotyping’ and ‘generalising’. It is evident he is not doing so from the above highlighted remarks he has made which may have slipped notice of readers. As a writer, one cannot continuously bracket each statement with small-print such as (”by the way, this isn’t my view on EVERYONE”) and (”ps, i’m really not generalising or type-casting ok?”). It takes away essence or authority from writing.
I think the writer has been as diplomatic as possible in expressing his views. Not liking the article or his style is one thing, and obviously completely acceptable. But he hasn’t really generalised as accused.. ?
Also, the comment on the differences between ‘freshi’ and ‘desi’, etc.. the writer is using certain words not only for impact, but has given them his own definitions (and explained these definitions) for the purpose of the article. It should really be taken in that respect.
Other than that, Ahsan- regarding the language barrier when it comes to defending oneself- you’re right, it can be a huge confidence-slammer. I’ve seen that with my own cousin, who I’ve lived with for the past 4 years, and whose kick-ass confidence changes like the wind when she’s not on homeground Dhaka.
Abz Hussain - good points raised re: your definition of the word. True that such ‘types’ do exist. It is really all down to one’s own definition and categorisation. But it’s also true that international students, for example, who are very much attempting to assimilate in the UK, face ridicule by some narrow-minded jerks who cannot hear past the fact that they do not have a British accent, pronounce certain words wrong, or string together a grammatically incorrect sentence. Or type-cast them as being ‘only after one thing’.
As Talvin says, the respect needs to be there from both sides. Yes, Bangladeshis look down on British-Bengalis too, but because we often give them reason to. How can we NOT know our year of independence, or be more familiar with our where we hail from? Sure we can get it wrong, or not be perfect- we’re balancing two cultures for crying out loud, but the effort to gain knowledge is what immediately demands respect, rather than aloofness and ignorance.
I guess my view is really this.. it’s far, far, far more humiliating to be a British-Bengali, who cannot speak his/her mother-tongue with fluency and ease, than to be a Bangladeshi that cannot ‘pudding-n-pie’ his/her English. I’d like to see some of us British-Bengalis do all our exams, dissertations, job applications, and interviews in Bangla.
It could well be funnier than X-Factor auditions.
November 26th, 2008 at 12:55 am
“In a nutshell a Freshi is a leech!”coments from
a guy whose mum and dad frm bd and introduce himself as a british bangladeshi ,i imagine how he feel spending life with parents or bangladeshi relatives under same roof.
but i knw u guys need fressis to run ur restaurent bussiness as thy r cheap and u cn drive a four by four hiding ur income and paying less salary,
shame to those people who hate people from his own connection , a people can be judge by lots of things rather thn speaking fluent english,u should leave ur religion as profet cant speak english in british excent,hahahahh
the truth is there u guys r more recist from a white man and also truth is still white people love u as a paki how much u try to westernize urself ,hahahhahahahah
November 26th, 2008 at 1:00 am
Well o well…
I was the first person to comment on this article and had no IDEA what will happen next…
There are some comments and some success stories shared here which can make SO lot of us…
Jumper commented rather in a TOUGH way and generalized it as …It lacks RESEARCH…I believe the research done by REZA is CRYSTAL CLEAR from our EXPERIENCE ( Well Mr ABZ…u define Freshie in ur way but WE hear it from fellow BRIT Brats on us)…
Their are some other experience I CAN SHARE…lat year on a Queen Mary program..their was a PERFORMANCE on SO called FRESHIE by so called BANGALI STUDENTS ( I am sorry if it offends some one…but they humiliated my Identity..My passport on that program)…which clearly offended ALL the AUDIENCE who has some respect for BANGLADESH…In an international student event ; Featuring the Name BANGALI society event some SO called DESHI (so called educated)people just DESTROYED our FEELINGS…
So the main point here is not the uneducated or the first/second generation..it is the HATE in them…MOST of them…I m sorry again if any one is offended…
well I know i m not well articulated now because of my illness but still I THANK REZA and hope if any one from Queen Mary or any cultural organization reading it should check it n stop these abuse…
take care
November 26th, 2008 at 1:21 am
Yes brova aisif…U dont have to be that curious..there are lots of people curios out there to know. And yea..Ahsan vhai,when the white say “Paki” means all the brown skins…so if all the brown skins are freshie to them ,then asian british’r are not out of it…
the funny thing is these all so called Desi british’s are always confused and in the middle of the way…
they are not asian nor british….actually they are simply ignorent both by freshies and white british’s..
November 26th, 2008 at 2:07 am
Oh my dear brother Saif…hahahaha..beautiful!! U say- ‘they are not asian nor british….actually they are simply ignorent both by freshies and white british’s..’-
so which breed r U? No Freshi..No Desi..perhaps simply Bdeshi who is writing inside desi??? :) Best of luck with the ‘blame game’.
November 26th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
nice one sunny B!
November 26th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Firstly like to apologise to all ‘brothers & sisters’ from back home for ever making them feel not worthy to be here in the UK (intentional and unintentional). But I would also like to point out a further division within the immigrant community…especially common within the Bangladeshi community. A sense of prejudice within regions…people hailing from Dhaka or other regions looking down upon the people hailing from Sylhet. There seems to be a wide held impression that Sylhetis tend to be uneducated and their behaviour is light years behind the rest of the Bangladeshi population. How do we overcome that?
November 26th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
I thought Kaynath was from Bangladesh?! British Bengali kobe holey?
November 26th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
I want to explore further what Abz touched upon. Naushed clearly seems to be a step apart from the typical “freshy”. He has excellent written communication skills and seems to have a thorough grasp of Brit-Asian culture. Unfortunately though, he represents a tiny minority. The division that do exist spur out of tangible reasons. What many “freshies” may see as normal or acceptable, many brit-Asians see as repulsive. Ogling at girls, bad habits (only the other day a “freshy” was happily scratching his bits in full view in front of me on a train), terrible dress sense, Bollywood wannabe Hero attitude, chest hair exposure, among many others. Until “freshies” do learn to assimilate better, thes divisions are going to - naturally - exist.
November 26th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Jumper - I dont think Naushad was trying to be revolutionary - he wouldnt be writing it for insidedesi if he was and if you want to read revolutionary text and get an intellectual orgasm at the heights of new knowledge, maybe your on the wrong online mag or maybe, compared to the rest of the fluffy drivle on ID, Naushad’s quite frank and relevant piece of writing was too deep and profound for you.
ey ey ey *wink*
November 26th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Miss Mushrooms, if you hated ID as much as you purport to, then why on earth do you spend so much time gracing its pages with your BS?! You’re both insulting the writers of ID, and its readers… and that’s not through your comments. On the contrary. It’s by being here and making us share the same presence as yourself. Go and find some other place to poison with your incompetent saliva spilling buffoonary.
November 26th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
I think Mushroom is on Mushrooms.
November 26th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Some interesting comments there. Surely this topic has proven to be very popular. I thought enough was said in relation to this topic. May be this is going to be my last comment here!
Asim: I would agree with you on that. Youre suggestion is very much valid and only resolves the issue being ”Freshie by appearance”. I think youre understanding of freshie is very much similar to the one expressed by Abz. You ought to give them some time before they begin to understand the differences between two dynamic cultures. The country we have come from are amongst those very rare group of countries where urinating on the side of the road is regarded as perfectly normal. You and I are different because we have interacted with people who are more civilised than perhaps people of Bangladesh are (Poorer citizens of Bangladesh). We must not forget Bangladesh still is a third world war country where people fight day in and day out for most fundamental basic needs. If it was all hanky dory there would have been no needs for economic migrants to exist. This is where our ancestors had come here.
What is desirable here is that we do not disrespect anyone under any circumstances.
We together can make UK a better place to live in. We will not encourage institutional racism. Be unite and will contribute towards the advancement of our mother-land. Will treat ”non-domicile” friends as we would like to be treated if we were to visit a foreign country. Be sympathetic and extend your hands to those who needs help. (AMEEN)
November 26th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
GO and watch ” Namastey London” again
November 27th, 2008 at 12:08 am
@ Mushroom
You sound bitter, you must be fat and ugly in real life. I bet you’re sweet as pie in real life too.
Again, brilliant article.
November 27th, 2008 at 12:43 am
But Mushroom was merely praising Naushad here.. hmmmm. And she is quite entitled to have an opinion on the rest of our work too, surely. I think so, anyway. It’s a matter of personal choice really.
Saif - ‘Namastey London’..? Are you actually SERIOUS?
‘fresh_n_proud’ - Lol. Ami to jonmo thekei British-Bengali. And i do consider myself Bangladeshi- maybe not through ‘nationality’, and I may be born & bred on British soil. But all the same, as proud as you.
November 27th, 2008 at 1:21 am
He he he…Ami shob kichur por o Manus…no matter if i m bengali or Brit…
November 27th, 2008 at 1:37 am
Shabbash!! Bhalo dekhaiso eita amar manush bhai Saif.
November 27th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Asim - I dont hate ID and nor do i feel i am insulting its writers. I read the stuff for gods sake and i was praising Naushad’s piece - so clearly i don’t! and if i do, i apologise. I just take pleasure in criticising drivle - its so much fun don’t you think ;)
and its nice when you actually read a good piece of writing like the above (which is on ID -so frankly, your lame attempt at being ID’s spawn love is just - well - lame)
And anyways, why get yoru knickers in so much of a twist at my comment directed towards Jumper - after praising an ID article -? What, you have shares in ID’s future or sumink? *cough*
“Incompetent saliva spilling buffoonary” - my my - someone’s clearly spent a long time orchestrating that sentence - If you cant handle difference in opinion than your the one who is incompetent. As for saliva spilling buffoonary -a huh - ofcorse - coming from a highly strung member of the male species like yourself is quiet rich dont you think.
@ Tik-tak - nor am i fat or ugly and if my comments make you think that than you must be a hairy bimbo who needs to be shaking her tiktaks elsewhere. Just because i dont suck the balls of every ID writer makes me bitter, poisonous, fat and ugly -honestly, so pathetic
Asim & tiktak - why does it infuriate you so much that someone is different to you in their nature of critique - what did you spend your years at uni doing, sitting on the fence of every debate or mere discussion that required an IQ level above 80?!?!
*yawn*
Anyways Naushad, I apologise for the incompetence and sheer lame-osity of some comment-ers on your article who find it difficult to comprehend that I actually like your article and agree with much of it and feel it’s a very worthy piece in ID’s archives.
November 27th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Is anyone else irritated by Mushroom’s continual comments? I’ve noticed it before on other posts that she always seems rather aggresively defensive, takes pleasure in venomously criticizing comments, writers and articles and then follows up with a yawn if anyone tries to say anything back, as if no one elses opinions matters other than her own. Irritating little girl.
*Yawn*
November 27th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
lol
*yawn* @ you annoyed
lighten up
its nearly christmas!
:)
*wink*
November 27th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
sorry to get under your skin annoyed - its only comments - i’m not a meany. honest 0:) (thats a halo smiley)
November 28th, 2008 at 2:22 am
Find it funny how Miss J is bought up again;
She met a guy whom she had concern about, if he will be the stereotypical “freashi” that is waiting to make his life using someone else instead of trying to be successful on his own. And the guy didn’t give her any hope or dreams to move forward in future with.
If the guy proved otherwise she would have moved pass this.
Simple as that, leave her alone, everyone is entitled to their own opinion on whom they get married to.
November 28th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Nice article but it only seems to mention the ‘educated’ Bangladeshi migrants who come here to work. What about the fakes? From my personal family experience of immigration, there are a lot of fakes, believe me. It’s quite common knowledge within the Bangladeshi community that Bangladesh is one of the most corrupt countries in the world. Slip ‘em a bit of money and anything is yours. Three of my cousins amongst numerous other relatives have all used fake names, fake passports, fake education documents just to get here for the sole purpose of getting state benefits as well as a little restaurant job on the side. The do not care about educating themselves. They only care for ££££, which will help build that fancy apartment eventually in Sylhet.
During my time at University I did meet a few genuine Freshies who came here for a real education and job, unfortunately they lived up to to thier snobbish stereotype with thier ‘mightier than thou’ attitude upon realing I was a Sylheti. They too were arrogant and ignorant.
I was born in Bangladesh but brought up in UK for most of my life. I am aware of the history of my mother-land and read, write and speak both dialects of Bengali, but Freshies still have a problem connecting with me, somehow believing they are superior.
You see this silly superiority attitude gets passed down from generation to generation. I was brought up to really believe that because I am British I am actually better (not wealthier) than my foreign counterparts. And I can bet you any money, the Freshies, once settled adopt the same attitude to thier beloved abroad. It’s as though being British or living in Britain, a country of power and wealth is like a status badge. This too gets upheld when I visit Bangladesh, the villagers treat you like a celebrity even if you insist they don’t.
It’s a two way street; the Freshies often bring it upon themselves with thier ignorance of British Bangladeshis. Many assume we can’t read or write in our mother toungue, that we don’t know about politics or economy, or current affairs, then it turns out they have problems spelling thier address in England.
I recognise that Freshies come here for economic gain, but sadly that’s where it seems to end. They have no want or desire in getting to know us (I realise there shouldn’ be an us/them divide but there is) aren’t we too thier brothers/sisters?
Britain is a tough country to work with fake qualifications, or even real ones, so when Freshies realise this, they seem to direct thier anger to the British Bengalis as though it’s thier fault. The Brits don’t like this so the animosity continues. It all comes down to EDUCATION. When Freshies start treating Brits like equals, and vice versa there might be change, but because of these 2 words which seem to be synonomous with being Bengali- Pride and Arrogance- I doubt that will happen. We all know arrogance stems from innate axieties over one’s own competence, its a defence mechanism. It protects one brother from another (foreign) brother. But this is not a war!! Instead of waging war because of our own insecurities we should talk more, drink less……. no. It’s only when one stops judging themsleves so much that they can truely not judge others.
November 28th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Hear hear, Laila. Well articulated.
November 28th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Since I live in the US, I will speak from a US perspective. The situation is no different here in the US. The goal of the American Desi seems is to mock the Freshie based on assimilation level like accent, lifestyle and material assets, gadgets and cars and .My opinion is that it derives from an inferiority complex which views the local (white American to be more specific) as the ideal unreachable goal for all people of Desi origin thereby translating into a subconscious superiority complex over the Fresher who seems to be at a greater distance from the goal than the Desi. This, not sounding to be mean, is simply a reflection of their own parents’ psyche, who also seem to harbor varying degrees of hatred towards anyone ‘from the subcontinent’ but hold ‘Indian culture and traditions’ in very high esteem, which is quite paradoxical. Could be due to their own failures in the subcontinent which could be one of the reasons that that emigrated in the first place. Another factor is the reciprocal “I had a tough time in my settling down days, let me mete out the same treatment to the Freshie, so that the Freshie learns what its like to be an immmigrant” attitude. Is this the right attitude, I don’t know, I think not. It’s high time that the Desi starts respecting the Freshies for what they are, and not for superficial things like American(or British) accent and knowing sll the names of burger chains in the country. The quicker the sane realization that some day the Freshie, the educated type atleast, is bound to become a fully assimilated Desi with all the material trappings that come with it, the better.
November 30th, 2008 at 1:18 am
There seems to be an attitude amongst the responses so far. That people must earn their respect. Because they will become educated and successful etc.
This is so wrong in my opinion. We should show people respect. Full Stop. No one has to earn that.
Its just good manners.
November 30th, 2008 at 1:32 am
i took this article very personally. at the shops today, i thought about being extra freindly to the freshi.
then i thought, he’s still a red-blooded man. don’t wanna give wrong idea.
November 30th, 2008 at 1:38 am
“We should show people respect. Full Stop. No one has to earn that.
Its just good manners.”
Uma - LOVE IT. I think you are quite possibly the most articulate commenter on ID. It really is just basic humanity & decent etiquette. Wish i’d stated that before.
Amol - hahahahahahaha. I’m actually still laughing lmao.
December 1st, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Uma - thank you - simple and to the point
you are absolutely right
my ranting and raving was based on that source of respect
Respect should be in abundance and not showered to some because they ‘deserve it’ more etc
December 3rd, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Abz Hussain has lost his own identity…wats his real name??..Abz??..I have seen desis in East London, some are worst than freshies, wearing bling bling, with spike hair and listening R&B doesnt make you posh, just because many of your still have the 2000 year old mentality. Freshies are much better off, intelligent, independent and wealthy.
Abz hates desis because he sees only one side of the coin, he is jealous of the other which defines freshies as above. I am sure he aint educated enough, on his own of course, maybe running a corner shop and driving dad’s car.
Spikes, bling bling and R&B dont make you posh and hep it the content in your head that matters.
Cheers
Freshie.
December 4th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Feeling a need to re-post Abz Hussain’s comment here:
Abz Hussain Says: Rate Comment? (0)
November 25th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
A very superficial article, which makes bold claims and yet is not backed with any substantial evidence apart from anecdotes.
I am a British Bangladesh and I am against Freshis. Now me and my friends DO NOT class economic migrants as Freshis. The Freshis are those here, mainly via marriage, and do not want to assimilate. They want to work in the shadow economy and not pay their fair due of taxes and contributions to the state. More flagrantly, they claim support benefits on top of their cash in hand income!
When a girl walks past them, they perv on them as if they were about to devour the girl. Our Freshi doesn’t understand English and does not want to bother with learning the language because he is living in Bangla Town.
I do not think those living in East London, more specifically Tower Hamlets, truly understand what a Freshi is. In a nutshell a Freshi is a leech!
…
Amrish: Abz Hussain is merely stating his definition of what he holds resentment for. He has defined, or attempted to define, his meaning of the word in order to explain his viewpoint.
I cant see anything to do with him being ‘jealous of the ‘other definition’- in fact he separates the two immediately, and clearly states that he does NOT class economic migrants as freshies, rather highlighting the behaviour which is common amongst much of the overseas community residing here. Yes, i personally believe a lot of that is to do with cultural divide and norms, but that’s another argument alltogether.
At the end of the day, we can debate all day- most of us have opinions on every issue under the sun. But that really is the point: these are opinions of individuals. They will differ. I can’t say i agree with everything he says either.
But there is really no need for personal slander in order to get a point across, such as ‘I am sure he aint educated enough, on his own of course, maybe running a corner shop and driving dad’s car.’
Unnecessary, and rude.
December 10th, 2008 at 11:04 am
wow I love this article.. so while my insomnia driven adrenaline rush keeps me up.. I thought I’d drop my two-pence in!
First of all Im glad there is finally articles discussing this divide between the so called desi’s and freshies.. it’s something Iv debated at length with friends and have had to deal with - being born and brought up here but with almost my entire family back in the motherland. Sadly to say though naushad that these ignorant desi’s that look down upon freshie’s are not limited to the streets of east london and surburbia, no even among wealthier, educated desi’s there exist a contempt for desi’s and its particularly pronounced in the bangladeshi community, certainly more so than in say the pakistani or say indian community.
I mean this divide I’v seen in England which in reality, only a minority of brit-asians respecting freshies for simply the people that they are and the even rarer phenomenon of the freshie with daddy’s credit to respecting, the desi’s who have grown up here. (btw i hate using either words: desi and freshie but just in keeping with the article i’v used them) but I do somehow feel this problem though present in other communties is somewhat pronounced in the bangladeshi community?
I was wondering why that is? does anyone agree and what is their opinion on it?
December 10th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
I personally think if you’re going to live in this country you have to conform to the countrys beliefs and traditions, as well as maintain your own culture in the privacy of your home or place of worship.
Too many freshies and British born asian are living in communities away from genuine British or English people and isolated from this countries culture. Southall and many parts of East London for example.
Its great that people from abroad are coming to this country for a better education and quality of life, thats great. But what I dont understand is why asians tend to segregate themselves from British culture.
I have met so many British asians and Freshies who say they don’t like speaking to white people or going to places with too many white people. Why? The level of racism in most parts of London is almost none, (if you’re not looking for trouble).
I tend to think that its only when foreigners choose to choose a lifestyle in this country which conflicts with genuine British culture, that is what gives Asians a bad name and causes conflict.
CONFORM.
December 16th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
@ Kaynath.
Thanks for highlighting the point raised and clarifications made by Abz. I do apologise for the personal remarks I made on Abz.
January 22nd, 2009 at 4:47 am
dere seems no end to this debate, i think its just the feeling of superiority with desis ,who have never seen their roots .or they have never gone through the humilation which freshies face.
they just waana be apart of crowd.
freshie………proud
independent ,educated and not spoiled.
January 29th, 2009 at 12:36 am
i totally agree wid wat abz hussain said abt freshys being pervs n all dat. i dnt mean 2 be horrible 2 dem buh they deserve it i mean me n my m8s cnt go out places where there anit a freshy on da bus wid us tryin 2 flirt callin us jaan ,or sum creepy freshy followin us dwn ilford, whitechaple etc finkin dey gt a chance evn doe we say plz leave us alone they fink we still want them 2 follw us.
dis article was intrestin buh do i feel guilty 4 h8in NO, i anit cum across a freshy hus nyc so if i sound lyk an ignorant desi bitch den m sori buh i dnt care.
January 29th, 2009 at 9:41 am
I don’t mean to be rude but I hate freshises. All Brit-Asians find freshies annoying: they’re so rude, no manners, act like they’ve never seen a woman in their life, and they’re so arrogant. I will get married to a girl from here.
January 29th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
well I reckon if these so called Desis (born and raised in the UK) really had an identity, they wouldn’t throng to Bollywood extravaganzas like a bunch of dorks. So u really don’t like Freshies but you do crave for an autograph with a celebrity from the old country.
Has anyone ever noticed how ludicrous these Desis look mimicking 50 cent for instance, with their blings and trousers falling off their hips? If u r really that smart then I guess u wouldn’t have to try so hard to justify ur miserable existance.
What’s even funnier is that folks from other cultures like Arabs, Jews,Orientals have flourished in the West for years (and discriminated against too) but you never see or hear of such rifts in those comunities.
October 17th, 2009 at 5:26 am
that’s a nice articale pointing some great issues bitween freshies and deshies. but do these desis know they come to this earth
through a freshies womb not from an english womb (most of them). and only an animal can piss there parents off for big time - like the cow, dog, pig etc!!!!
and after grwin up they found new immigrations are freshie. damn man don’t they know no metter how hard a craw try to be a parrot but cann’t coz this is against nature.
they try to prove themeself as an english but they got nothing of an english people coz as far as i know about my english friends and colligiuse most of them are well i mean 99% of them are very polite, honest, gentle and very well mannered. but otherside these desis(self called english), totally deffrent from white people, dropped out of school, being arrogant with parents and end of nite got nofin inside but full of shit. sounds rude i know but dats ma experience from them. they feel so proud that make them think they are the best and freshies are worse. me been in the uk for 8 long years and working all time in defferent places coz i knew the best thing is earn your own bread is better than begging front of government. yeah that the thing made them proud and defferent from us. sucking governments money since born till death and hate other people and there professions. but do they know freshies are paying tax to goverment, that mean get a piece of bread for them. you know they even dont like white or black people as well. actually these are not there fault these all heppen to them coz they are not well guided in home or school or nowhere.they are good for nothing to the society. they are not english or nither there own culters. me now 24 years old got brit passport, own restaurant and living a happy life but never fill proud but fill very satisfied dat after working hard all these years i got somthin ma own and never ever show my hand to someone for begging foods. coz i know this is a bad habit and that might make me desi from freshie.and i love to be freshie coz by being freshie i got inpire to achieve somethin. once i used to strugle for a roof and now living a kingsize life by givin roof to other 10 people.so don’t ignore people or abuse them by calling freshie coz who knows, your begging habit might one day take you to there door for begg some food. anyway i want to make sure not all the desis are not same as i describe but most of them are. and offcourse as well as frieshies are. and oveously dn’t spent all of your time for earn money coz if u got children in your home you gotta look after them otherwise you will be responsible for genarate some more desis in your own home. and offcourse leave these desis on there own way coz atleast they got somone for begging but you and me got no choice but stervin. so working and oil our own business is better then starvin or begging coz i think you don’t want your next genaretion will grow up by begging and being a classified human being (desi) and abuse there own parents or relatives or people by calling them freshie!! and hate these people by calling them gora or shada or white people whatever who give them food cloths and everything since your birth.
October 23rd, 2009 at 3:16 am
just stumbled upon this article, n thoroughly agree with it…but cohesion and respect comes from both sides too….alot of ‘freshis’ hold onto their superiority mainly cos they cum from dhaka..iv seen this explicitly as im a british born bengali wher my parents r originally frm dhaka…so i get alot of grief from both sides :( the ‘freshies’ think im sylheti n hence dont want to mingle lol….we shud jus all believe in unity for bdesh’s sake, respect humanity and be good to one another….joy bangla
December 1st, 2009 at 1:50 am
The divide in the UK is based mainly on region ie. SYLHETI BENGALI majority vs. the NON SYLHETI minority (mainly recently arrived students).
The Sylhetis tend to be more established and control the professions (eg. line of Solicitors/accountants offices on Whitechapel Road), mosques (this is why many are named after Sylheti Saints Shah Jalal and Shah Firon), cultural centres, Tv Stations (eg. Channel S) and political leadership (eg. Rushnara Ali is the Labour candidate to be MP in BB&B, Ajmal Masroor (Lib Dem) and Respect candidates are all Sylheti). Non Sylhetis dominate numerically in Bangladesh and are unused to this.
The Non Sylheti newly arrived student visa types sometimes come from a Middle class background, even through they work in menial jobs in the UK, and look down at Sylhetis who don’t speak the ‘pure language’. On the other hand British Sylhetis look down on Non Sylhetis as freshies who are unable to string two sentences together in English.
Regional identities tend to dominate rather than the overarching Bangladeshi identity much more sharply amongst diaspora groups. Largely because countries like ‘Bangladesh’, ‘India’ and ‘Pakistan’ are artificial countries. Eg. Sylhet has more in common in language with Assam than Dhaka.