The Superwoman Complex

Categorized | Lifestyle

Posted on 01 June 2008 by Kia Abdullah

Why do Asian girls feel the constant need to prove their superiority over men?

Asian Superwoman

All Asian girls straighten their hair.

All Asian girls wear black all the time.

All Asian girls can’t live without eyeliner.

All statements I have heard and taken umbrage to in the past. I, like most Asian girls, bridle at stereotypes which pigeonhole us all together. I grit my teeth and shake my fist at anyone who dares to tar us all with the same brush. That said, there is one stereotype I recently came across that really resonated with me. I was browsing the net, being generally unproductive, when I stumbled upon an interview with fellow author and journalist Sathnam Sanghera.

In the interview, Sathnam says:

“Sikh girls don’t have personalities, they have post-traumatic disorder. They have to fight so hard and so persistently for their independence that they become brutalised by the experience, and even when they have their freedom, they can’t stop fighting.”

While Sathnam’s statement singles out Sikh girls, I think it can be applied to a wider range of Asian girls. The quote will offend some people - even Sathnam admits that it’s a ‘sweeping generalisation’ - but I actually think it’s extremely insightful.

While claming that Asian women don’t have personalities is too strong, it has to be said that many of us do struggle for independence; a struggle which does have a detrimental effect on our personalities. In fact, I’m surprised some of us can still walk what with the massive chip we’re nursing on our shoulders.

I’m most certainly guilty of the truculence Sathnam speaks of. I remonstrate against all forms of dependence, stressing time and time again that I am independent, autonomous and free. I am committed to a man but hate depending on him emotionally or financially. I have a constant need to prove that I’m smart, secure, strong and self-sufficient. I can be fiercely competitive with a relentless need to prove that I’m right; a need that almost emasculates the men closest to me.

In short, I can’t stop fighting.

Rather than an offensive generalisation, I think Sathnam’s quote hits the nail on the head. Most Asian girls want to be taken care of. We want financial security, comfort, love and warmth, and we would love that in the shape of a man but when we’ve fought patriarchy all our lives, it’s just not easy to allow a man to guide and support us.

So what is the solution? Should a man concede every argument to appease the woman in his life? Should girls be allowed to get away with this type of aggressive behaviour? Do we need to reign in the control freak and then learn to relinquish those reigns once in a while?

I’m interested in your thoughts. Am I the only one with this problem or have you come across it too? Have you dated a girl who was always smarting for a fight? Maybe you’re a woman who recognises this type of behaviour in herself? Have you found a solution? Do you even think you need one?

Personally, I think it’s unfair to use men as punchbags in order to prove our strength. A partner shouldn’t be a pedestal which we perch upon to prove our supremacy. Yes, we had to fight long and hard for our independence; yes, prejudices still exist and women are still treated unfairly, but when we have found a man who regards us as equal, as truly secure women, shouldn’t we learn to reciprocate that respect?

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(8 votes. Average: 4.25 out of 5)

27 Comments For This Post

Desiphreak Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Very insightful article. I can relate to the fight. I am the fight. I am fighting as an asian woman everyday to find a niche within the world that i live in, whether it be at work or at home. To me, no matter how hard women try to reach a level of independance and individuality that is tantamount to a man, we will NEVER be regarded as equals. Its ingrained into the mindset of our parents generation and is being infused into the mindset of the common Youth (males more so, so that they can have their cake and eat it to — “you have to marry a smart ladki with a knack for making aloo ka paratha”). So the definitive word: We have to fight. We will continue fighting. We don’t necessarily use men as our punching bags but yes they need to be reminded to continue giving us that independance and not revert back to their outdated expectations.
Raj Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 5:39 pm
I’m yet to meet an Asian girl who doesn’t have psychological issues in one form or another. Admitantly these may be due to the pressures Asian women face on various levels (society, family, religion etc.), leaving them with long term emotional scars. It’s actually very distressing if one is to put it into context.
Jay Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 6:03 pm
I wish Sathnam had qualified his comments a little. Pointing to the social pressures that affect Asian women is one thing; coming out with a comment like ‘they don’t have personalities’ seems to me extremely glib and just the kind of mindless generalisation we experience from mainstream society, when we are not viewed as individuals, but as some kind of generalised Asian blob.

I would have expected better from an Asian journalist and writer. The fact is, everyone is influenced by the context of their lives. Asian women are influenced by their social experiences, but like everyone else, they have individual personalities distinctive because everyone experiences, reacts to, and is shaped by experience differently.

So it was insightful for pointing out some of the formative pressures that Asian women experience, but it was idiotic to say that individuals are no more than the sum of social pressures, and that Asian women do not have individual personality.
Jay Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 6:08 pm
I just wanted to point out that I’m a guy, after reading my last comment, I didn’t make that clear.
Pixiema Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 6:17 pm
just read this article and have to say it made me feel a little guilty about the recent treatment ive been giving my fella. it stopped and made me think. some parts of us are taught to be assertive all the time. hmmm, maybe i should cut him some slack. he is giving me independence (which i demonstrated i wanted) and im making him suffer for it, because i want him to take care of me.

lol

do you think we can learn to chill out, esp us alpha type women?
AK Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Is it the Asian woman? Or rather a post-modern phenomena amongst women in general??

I’m more inclined to believe it is the latter.
Kadija Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 6:27 pm
@ Jay we have all encountered this at some stage (regarding the generalisation made by the journalist) and lets be honest, all stereotypes are formulated with an association to the truth.

their is a speck of honesty behind each, however individuals do not all conform to this, just like all blonde’s are not bimbo’s nor are all Sikh girls suffering from ‘post-traumatic disorders’ - but their are the blatant few that preserve the life of these stereotypes.
Abs Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 6:33 pm
I see the dilemma, it is quite apparent within this very article too; many Asians feel the need to write in such a way that a reader might require a thesaurus to decode the article… almost as if to say to the world, ‘despite my being an Asian woman, I have had an education and I am intelligent’

Well done!
TickTack Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Asian women are faced with the struggle intensely, because we have to confront and overcome obstacles from the word go to gain even the basic of independence esp in a western country (more so when you have 1st generation parents). This fight from almost birth moulds us with the fighting mentality that this battle becomes part of our everyday subconscious mantra.

To be a successfull / independent women from an Asian background means you have to fight, you have to be strong and only then can you hope to have the same opportunites as the non-Asian women in a western country. In some respects, if we chose not to reach out for a better way of life and be submissive (cook/clean/wait for marriage/study a non-threatening subject and have a predictable career ) then we would not be as demanding and carry with us the resonating ciries of warriors. Yes we are all warriors.
Jay Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 7:51 pm
But Kadija, even you wouldn’t contend that blondes, black women, Asian men or Asian women are so much a product of social pressures that ‘they don’t have individual personalities’?

I think Sathnam’s contention was probably an attempted wisecrack, but it was stupid.

I have been formed by the society I was raised in and all the influences my family, friends, and wider society have placed on me have played a part in making me what I am.

But if anyone said that I as an Asian man did not have an individual personality I would think they were a moron, or prejudiced. I feel the same way about the comment about Asian women.

Anyway, as someone who is instinctively positive, I admire Asian women who take this energy and struggle and excel in their chosen field. It can be an incredible driver to personal achievment in business, the professions, the media.

As for the question of being tough on your partner because of this, well, first of all you’ll have to convince me that this dilemma is one faced exclusively by Asian women in their relationships. I don’t believe it is. At the end of the day, if you love your partner you work things out.
Kadija Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 8:15 pm
@Jay Agreed that this was a silly generalisation to make but it was just that. Its common sense to know that not everyone is the same, which makes his comment even more unwise. Yes he has a greater responsibility in that he is in a position of elevated recognition, again propelling his comment further into the field of stupidity. However all stereotypes are based in some form of reality.
Kia Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Hi all, thank you for your comments. It’s heartening to see that I’m not alone, but also kind of sad that Asian women feel they have to fight so hard to achieve a degree of independence.

> AK
“Is it the Asian woman? Or rather a post-modern phenomena amongst women in general??”
An interesting question. I agree that it affects women in general but I think it affects Asian women on a deeper level because they generally have to fight harder for their independence than their non-Asian counterparts.

> Pixiema
“do you think we can learn to chill out, esp us alpha type women?”
I’m not sure. I’m still trying!
Kia Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 9:14 pm
> Jay

On reflection, I think I should have made the context of the quote clearer. Sathnam’s more complete answer is below, which I think shows that while he USED to be glib about the issue in his early twenties, he now knows better (i.e. he realises it was his own attitude and circumstances at fault rather than Asian women in general).

“I dated both Indian and English women in my twenties and used to make all sorts of sweeping generalisations which, on reflection, had more to do with my own neuroses than them. At one point in the book I go as far as saying ‘Sikh girls don’t have personalities, they have post-traumatic disorder. They have to fight so hard and so persistently for their independence that they become brutalized by the experience, and even when they have their freedom, they can’t stop fighting.’

There may be some truth in this, as there is in most generalisations, but I can see now that I struggled with Punjabi women, not because they were mad, but because I invariably met them in arranged marriage scenarios, which are often strained and awkward…

In short, I think I struggled with Indian girls because I was being forced to meet them by my family, whereas, things took a more natural course elsewhere.”
Jay Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 9:25 pm
Kia

Thanks for providing the full context for the comment by Sathnam Sanghera, it’s clear that it’s probably unfair to criticise him for what he now realises was probably too simplistic and glib an assertion.

Kadija — sure, there may be a kernel of truth in some stereotypes, but it’s how these stereotypes are applied, in what context, and by whom, that has to be considered at all times. That’s all I meant really.

Ladies, what do you make of these comments by Rod Liddle in the Sunday Times today, about an Asian writer called Munira Mirza?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/rod_liddle/article4039884.ece

I don’t know about you, but I found them incredibly patronising and strange, and even a little bit creepy.
Benjamin Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Kia

I would have to agree with Ak, women in general not just Asian are quick to grab power in relationships and argue the most petty of points sometimes to the confusion of their male partners.
I believe that women have been at odds with their male counter parts throughout history. I have argued and debated with my male friends “why women always have to be right”, “Why do women fight so hard for independence when men are happy with the relationship”.
I know the answers to these questions.
But I am not telling you the answers because you’re a women and I would be letting the male population down if I tell you. Apart from anything else you will only argue that I am wrong.
Jay Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 2nd, 2008 at 1:23 am
hahaha @ Benjamin
sasha Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:35 am
lol to Benjamin

We should fight for male rights.

Women are feisty in general, irrespective of race and creed (I agree with AK). That is not to say all have a chip on their shoulder; more so, fighting for reasonable societal behaviour. The behavioural issue being something that has become a part and parcel of an ignorant society.
Sufi Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 2nd, 2008 at 3:04 pm
This article is so true and obvious it is ridiculous that someone hasn’t said this before. this ‘have it all’ idea didn’t exist for men all this years so I don’t know where women have got it from, men have had more, but not everything. I think Asian girls in particular, given their situation, do have to decide which they want more, or recognise the flaw within and draw a fine line. Lets face it neither one is going to happen is it? As a woman you want everything, and recognising a flaw would mean you have to first admit you have one.

To the fellas, go out and buy some body armour.
D-Jital Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Living in todays society we are still learning to adapt to changes in our roles as asian men and women. I personally think that the next generation of asians will find it much more easier to deal with these type of issues, mainly due to the struggles faced by our generation now. I also think that there is a bigger debate about “who we are and what we represent as asian men and women living in the west”.

With The recent availablity of new media being used as a stage to showcase our culture I think this fight for women to prove themselves will go on for a longer time.

I am saying this as a Bengali, coming from a Bengali community.
Ladybird Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Not about to read all the above posts, but I agree that the article was quite insightful and also agree that stating that they have no personalties was inappropriate.

Not much of an angry person myself, this is probably because my mother fought the independance battle for me.
However this chip on the shoulder thing is evident in many races and cultures.

The same could be said about people descending from the halaucaust and from the America’s Slave history. With the women in particular, it may have been further fuelled since women’s liberation movements.

Personally, if someone decides to have a chip on their shoulder for apparently no reason apart from paranoia that they are not man enough, perhaps you need to deal with the prejudices within yourself to realise that in this day and age, we are actually just as equally accepted as the lads and that our success is judged on our abilities and not by our gender/ background etc.

Like I said, I’m not angry myself but I do see the bitterness around me. I could be too, it hasn’t been easy. I am a bengali girl with a white-collar job in a highly male dominated industry, I am yet to come across another asian female in the same post, however I don’t think I need to become a crusader or break any barriers. I will simply get on with the job to the best of my abilities, just like everyone else.
Kadija Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 4th, 2008 at 12:45 am
Lady Bird - as you said, you do not carry the ‘chip’ because

“this is probably because my mother fought the independence battle for me.”

My daughter will have a much easier ride because I would have run the gauntlet for her. You are less ‘angry’ because you have had it easier.

But going back to Kia’s point, I do believe when we have tested that one person with all our might, and he is still there this power struggle fades. its just accepting and trusting in them, more so trusting yourself.
Rahima Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 4th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
great read

lets not compartmentalise struggles to ethnicity
every group carries its baggage which will inevitably effect both men and women in that ethnic realm

we must not forget that each group also has its own set of beliefs and ideals, be it religous or cultural so we cannot assume our own ‘asian’ stresses are erected higher than other womens. I think its more the make-up of a woman and how we feel we need to assert ourselves in order to beat the stereotypes and so on so forth that leads to these wishy washy images of ‘asian’ women or ‘black women’ or whatever as always fighting to be ‘free’ or in this desperate cycle of desired autonomy.

I agree with you Kia (”we shouldnt use men as our punchbags”)
Being strong shouldnt have to be about loud exclamations of where we attempt to impose our coming of modernity or ‘difference’ as a woman etc etc…
We do not need to demand respect or equality from men

simply carrying yourself in a dignified, respectable, intelligent and composed manner can be the key to a progressive nature and creation of the ’super being’ lol
Farhana Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 9th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Having interviewed Sathnam myself, I thought it would be highly unlikely that this is a comment he has made recently..actually the words seemed rather familiar.

He’s a lovable guy…and so my curiosity lead me to click on the ‘interview’ link…and I learnt that the actual comment quoted is from his book, If You Don’t Know me By Now.

He actually says that he thinks that his impression of Sikh women was often the cause of awkward ‘family arranged marriage meetings’. And although he wrote that, his views now are somewhat different.

We all know that those ‘meetings’ are rather lacking in true taste and personality and people appear as they are not…;-)
Kia Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 9th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Hi all,

Some very interesting (and wise!) comments. Thank you.

> Benjamin
Are you really not going to enlighten Inside Desi’s female population? I promise I won’t argue.

> D-Jital
An interesting comment. I agree that the battle will go on for a while but, as you say, hopefully things will change with the next generation.

> Ladybird & Kadija
I think Kadija is right in that our daughters will (hopefully) have it easier. I see some of our neuroses being passed down but, in general, I think the next generation will be more progressive and well-balanced than ours… at least, that’s the theory.

> Rahima
Very wise words. It’s easier said than done but I agree that carrying ourselves in ‘a dignified, respectable, intelligent and composed manner can be the key to a progressive nature’.

> Farhana
Thanks for your comment. You’re right and I did try to clear this up in my comment above (http://www.insidedesi.com/2008/06/01/the-superwoman-complex/#comment-364) .

I did square it with Sathnam so it’s all good :)
j1nx Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 12th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Benjamin & Jay , i agree 2 a certain extent about their comments

“i’m yet to meet an Asian girl who doesn’t have psychological issues in one form or another.”

this is a common 1 many guys face, bt has any guy taken the time out 2 actaully sit down with their partners & talk about these things? maybe u can find where the problems stems frm? I have helped many of my female friends with certain issues, emotional scars do not have 2 be on-going 4 years of misery. Help yer partner by talking 2 them.

“why women always have to be right”, “Why do women fight so hard for independence when men are happy with the relationship”.”

we all have arguments over major 2 minor things, sumtimes u have 2 learn 2 back down. u the guy’s may be happy in yer relationship bt consider yer partner’s happiness also. women r nt always right & its hard 2 put tht point across. i understand tht situation , its hard 2 explain 2 someone thts stubborn at times. however, respect & compromise. learn those & u will be ok.
Thakmina B Says: Rate Comment? (0)
July 5th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
We often blame the way the world is due to lack of coexistence between people of different races, beliefs and so forth. However I think its more closer to home – while I am definitely for promoting rights and independence of women, my feminism is JUST about that: the promotion of female rights and not necessarily the wrongs of men. However, sexism does irk me a huge deal & most do get shot down by myself - by the art of communication/words/Islam of course :)

As an A-Level History student [well now ex-history student as of 3 weeks ago], there are visible differences regarding to how feminism was then in the suffragette movement to how it is now. It seems that the typical thing now is that it is not enough just to constantly prove yourself as a woman/man but while doing so, you have to do it in a street fighter ‘hadouken’ way: knocking your ‘contestant’ right down to the ground and ‘KO’ them – and thus the birth of a new punch bag. Having said that, men do the same too – and like Kia wrote in the article, you need humans who understand equality and realise there is no supremacy between genders – that is probably the difficult thing to find.

Females have fantastic characteristics. As do males. Instead of pushing each other off the bandwagon of ‘greatness’, I think these characteristics should muse – complimentary colours rock too :D There’s a balance that needs to be achieved, consisting of both men and women working together, each providing certain important elements – only then can we move forward rather than being stalemate in the same battle of who’s greater and using each other as a punch bag. We should strive to make movements not just for i.e. ‘womankind’ or indeed ‘mankind’, but for the whole of humanity.
Thad Mueller Says: Rate Comment? (0)
November 12th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
gfcdebqwkl2wy1p2

Desiphreak Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 4:22 pm

Very insightful article. I can relate to the fight. I am the fight. I am fighting as an asian woman everyday to find a niche within the world that i live in, whether it be at work or at home. To me, no matter how hard women try to reach a level of independance and individuality that is tantamount to a man, we will NEVER be regarded as equals. Its ingrained into the mindset of our parents generation and is being infused into the mindset of the common Youth (males more so, so that they can have their cake and eat it to — “you have to marry a smart ladki with a knack for making aloo ka paratha”). So the definitive word: We have to fight. We will continue fighting. We don’t necessarily use men as our punching bags but yes they need to be reminded to continue giving us that independance and not revert back to their outdated expectations.

Raj Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 5:39 pm

I’m yet to meet an Asian girl who doesn’t have psychological issues in one form or another. Admitantly these may be due to the pressures Asian women face on various levels (society, family, religion etc.), leaving them with long term emotional scars. It’s actually very distressing if one is to put it into context.

Jay Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 6:03 pm

I wish Sathnam had qualified his comments a little. Pointing to the social pressures that affect Asian women is one thing; coming out with a comment like ‘they don’t have personalities’ seems to me extremely glib and just the kind of mindless generalisation we experience from mainstream society, when we are not viewed as individuals, but as some kind of generalised Asian blob.

I would have expected better from an Asian journalist and writer. The fact is, everyone is influenced by the context of their lives. Asian women are influenced by their social experiences, but like everyone else, they have individual personalities distinctive because everyone experiences, reacts to, and is shaped by experience differently.

So it was insightful for pointing out some of the formative pressures that Asian women experience, but it was idiotic to say that individuals are no more than the sum of social pressures, and that Asian women do not have individual personality.

Jay Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 6:08 pm

I just wanted to point out that I’m a guy, after reading my last comment, I didn’t make that clear.

Pixiema Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 6:17 pm

just read this article and have to say it made me feel a little guilty about the recent treatment ive been giving my fella. it stopped and made me think. some parts of us are taught to be assertive all the time. hmmm, maybe i should cut him some slack. he is giving me independence (which i demonstrated i wanted) and im making him suffer for it, because i want him to take care of me.

lol

do you think we can learn to chill out, esp us alpha type women?

AK Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 6:26 pm

Is it the Asian woman? Or rather a post-modern phenomena amongst women in general??

I’m more inclined to believe it is the latter.

Kadija Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 6:27 pm

@ Jay we have all encountered this at some stage (regarding the generalisation made by the journalist) and lets be honest, all stereotypes are formulated with an association to the truth.

their is a speck of honesty behind each, however individuals do not all conform to this, just like all blonde’s are not bimbo’s nor are all Sikh girls suffering from ‘post-traumatic disorders’ - but their are the blatant few that preserve the life of these stereotypes.

Abs Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 6:33 pm

I see the dilemma, it is quite apparent within this very article too; many Asians feel the need to write in such a way that a reader might require a thesaurus to decode the article… almost as if to say to the world, ‘despite my being an Asian woman, I have had an education and I am intelligent’

Well done!

TickTack Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 6:59 pm

Asian women are faced with the struggle intensely, because we have to confront and overcome obstacles from the word go to gain even the basic of independence esp in a western country (more so when you have 1st generation parents). This fight from almost birth moulds us with the fighting mentality that this battle becomes part of our everyday subconscious mantra.

To be a successfull / independent women from an Asian background means you have to fight, you have to be strong and only then can you hope to have the same opportunites as the non-Asian women in a western country. In some respects, if we chose not to reach out for a better way of life and be submissive (cook/clean/wait for marriage/study a non-threatening subject and have a predictable career ) then we would not be as demanding and carry with us the resonating ciries of warriors. Yes we are all warriors.

Jay Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 7:51 pm

But Kadija, even you wouldn’t contend that blondes, black women, Asian men or Asian women are so much a product of social pressures that ‘they don’t have individual personalities’?

I think Sathnam’s contention was probably an attempted wisecrack, but it was stupid.

I have been formed by the society I was raised in and all the influences my family, friends, and wider society have placed on me have played a part in making me what I am.

But if anyone said that I as an Asian man did not have an individual personality I would think they were a moron, or prejudiced. I feel the same way about the comment about Asian women.

Anyway, as someone who is instinctively positive, I admire Asian women who take this energy and struggle and excel in their chosen field. It can be an incredible driver to personal achievment in business, the professions, the media.

As for the question of being tough on your partner because of this, well, first of all you’ll have to convince me that this dilemma is one faced exclusively by Asian women in their relationships. I don’t believe it is. At the end of the day, if you love your partner you work things out.

Kadija Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 8:15 pm

@Jay Agreed that this was a silly generalisation to make but it was just that. Its common sense to know that not everyone is the same, which makes his comment even more unwise. Yes he has a greater responsibility in that he is in a position of elevated recognition, again propelling his comment further into the field of stupidity. However all stereotypes are based in some form of reality.

Kia Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 9:14 pm

Hi all, thank you for your comments. It’s heartening to see that I’m not alone, but also kind of sad that Asian women feel they have to fight so hard to achieve a degree of independence.

> AK
“Is it the Asian woman? Or rather a post-modern phenomena amongst women in general??”
An interesting question. I agree that it affects women in general but I think it affects Asian women on a deeper level because they generally have to fight harder for their independence than their non-Asian counterparts.

> Pixiema
“do you think we can learn to chill out, esp us alpha type women?”
I’m not sure. I’m still trying!

> Jay

On reflection, I think I should have made the context of the quote clearer. Sathnam’s more complete answer is below, which I think shows that while he USED to be glib about the issue in his early twenties, he now knows better (i.e. he realises it was his own attitude and circumstances at fault rather than Asian women in general).

“I dated both Indian and English women in my twenties and used to make all sorts of sweeping generalisations which, on reflection, had more to do with my own neuroses than them. At one point in the book I go as far as saying ‘Sikh girls don’t have personalities, they have post-traumatic disorder. They have to fight so hard and so persistently for their independence that they become brutalized by the experience, and even when they have their freedom, they can’t stop fighting.’

There may be some truth in this, as there is in most generalisations, but I can see now that I struggled with Punjabi women, not because they were mad, but because I invariably met them in arranged marriage scenarios, which are often strained and awkward…

In short, I think I struggled with Indian girls because I was being forced to meet them by my family, whereas, things took a more natural course elsewhere.”

Jay Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 9:25 pm

Kia

Thanks for providing the full context for the comment by Sathnam Sanghera, it’s clear that it’s probably unfair to criticise him for what he now realises was probably too simplistic and glib an assertion.

Kadija — sure, there may be a kernel of truth in some stereotypes, but it’s how these stereotypes are applied, in what context, and by whom, that has to be considered at all times. That’s all I meant really.

Ladies, what do you make of these comments by Rod Liddle in the Sunday Times today, about an Asian writer called Munira Mirza?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/rod_liddle/article4039884.ece

I don’t know about you, but I found them incredibly patronising and strange, and even a little bit creepy.

Benjamin Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 1st, 2008 at 11:05 pm

I would have to agree with Ak, women in general not just Asian are quick to grab power in relationships and argue the most petty of points sometimes to the confusion of their male partners.
I believe that women have been at odds with their male counter parts throughout history. I have argued and debated with my male friends “why women always have to be right”, “Why do women fight so hard for independence when men are happy with the relationship”.
I know the answers to these questions.
But I am not telling you the answers because you’re a women and I would be letting the male population down if I tell you. Apart from anything else you will only argue that I am wrong.

Jay Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 2nd, 2008 at 1:23 am

hahaha @ Benjamin

sasha Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 2nd, 2008 at 9:35 am

lol to Benjamin

We should fight for male rights.

Women are feisty in general, irrespective of race and creed (I agree with AK). That is not to say all have a chip on their shoulder; more so, fighting for reasonable societal behaviour. The behavioural issue being something that has become a part and parcel of an ignorant society.

Sufi Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 2nd, 2008 at 3:04 pm

This article is so true and obvious it is ridiculous that someone hasn’t said this before. this ‘have it all’ idea didn’t exist for men all this years so I don’t know where women have got it from, men have had more, but not everything. I think Asian girls in particular, given their situation, do have to decide which they want more, or recognise the flaw within and draw a fine line. Lets face it neither one is going to happen is it? As a woman you want everything, and recognising a flaw would mean you have to first admit you have one.

To the fellas, go out and buy some body armour.

D-Jital Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 3rd, 2008 at 1:52 pm

Living in todays society we are still learning to adapt to changes in our roles as asian men and women. I personally think that the next generation of asians will find it much more easier to deal with these type of issues, mainly due to the struggles faced by our generation now. I also think that there is a bigger debate about “who we are and what we represent as asian men and women living in the west”.

With The recent availablity of new media being used as a stage to showcase our culture I think this fight for women to prove themselves will go on for a longer time.

I am saying this as a Bengali, coming from a Bengali community.

Ladybird Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:33 pm

Not about to read all the above posts, but I agree that the article was quite insightful and also agree that stating that they have no personalties was inappropriate.

Not much of an angry person myself, this is probably because my mother fought the independance battle for me.
However this chip on the shoulder thing is evident in many races and cultures.

The same could be said about people descending from the halaucaust and from the America’s Slave history. With the women in particular, it may have been further fuelled since women’s liberation movements.

Personally, if someone decides to have a chip on their shoulder for apparently no reason apart from paranoia that they are not man enough, perhaps you need to deal with the prejudices within yourself to realise that in this day and age, we are actually just as equally accepted as the lads and that our success is judged on our abilities and not by our gender/ background etc.

Like I said, I’m not angry myself but I do see the bitterness around me. I could be too, it hasn’t been easy. I am a bengali girl with a white-collar job in a highly male dominated industry, I am yet to come across another asian female in the same post, however I don’t think I need to become a crusader or break any barriers. I will simply get on with the job to the best of my abilities, just like everyone else.

Kadija Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 4th, 2008 at 12:45 am

Lady Bird - as you said, you do not carry the ‘chip’ because

“this is probably because my mother fought the independence battle for me.”

My daughter will have a much easier ride because I would have run the gauntlet for her. You are less ‘angry’ because you have had it easier.

But going back to Kia’s point, I do believe when we have tested that one person with all our might, and he is still there this power struggle fades. its just accepting and trusting in them, more so trusting yourself.

Rahima Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 4th, 2008 at 5:03 pm

great read

lets not compartmentalise struggles to ethnicity
every group carries its baggage which will inevitably effect both men and women in that ethnic realm

we must not forget that each group also has its own set of beliefs and ideals, be it religous or cultural so we cannot assume our own ‘asian’ stresses are erected higher than other womens. I think its more the make-up of a woman and how we feel we need to assert ourselves in order to beat the stereotypes and so on so forth that leads to these wishy washy images of ‘asian’ women or ‘black women’ or whatever as always fighting to be ‘free’ or in this desperate cycle of desired autonomy.

I agree with you Kia (”we shouldnt use men as our punchbags”)
Being strong shouldnt have to be about loud exclamations of where we attempt to impose our coming of modernity or ‘difference’ as a woman etc etc…
We do not need to demand respect or equality from men

simply carrying yourself in a dignified, respectable, intelligent and composed manner can be the key to a progressive nature and creation of the ’super being’ lol

Farhana Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 9th, 2008 at 1:36 pm

Having interviewed Sathnam myself, I thought it would be highly unlikely that this is a comment he has made recently..actually the words seemed rather familiar.

He’s a lovable guy…and so my curiosity lead me to click on the ‘interview’ link…and I learnt that the actual comment quoted is from his book, If You Don’t Know me By Now.

He actually says that he thinks that his impression of Sikh women was often the cause of awkward ‘family arranged marriage meetings’. And although he wrote that, his views now are somewhat different.

We all know that those ‘meetings’ are rather lacking in true taste and personality and people appear as they are not…;-)

Kia Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 9th, 2008 at 9:29 pm

Hi all,

Some very interesting (and wise!) comments. Thank you.

> Benjamin
Are you really not going to enlighten Inside Desi’s female population? I promise I won’t argue.

> D-Jital
An interesting comment. I agree that the battle will go on for a while but, as you say, hopefully things will change with the next generation.

> Ladybird & Kadija
I think Kadija is right in that our daughters will (hopefully) have it easier. I see some of our neuroses being passed down but, in general, I think the next generation will be more progressive and well-balanced than ours… at least, that’s the theory.

> Rahima
Very wise words. It’s easier said than done but I agree that carrying ourselves in ‘a dignified, respectable, intelligent and composed manner can be the key to a progressive nature’.

> Farhana
Thanks for your comment. You’re right and I did try to clear this up in my comment above (http://www.insidedesi.com/2008/06/01/the-superwoman-complex/#comment-364) .

I did square it with Sathnam so it’s all good :)

j1nx Says: Rate Comment? (0)
June 12th, 2008 at 11:31 pm

Benjamin & Jay , i agree 2 a certain extent about their comments

“i’m yet to meet an Asian girl who doesn’t have psychological issues in one form or another.”

this is a common 1 many guys face, bt has any guy taken the time out 2 actaully sit down with their partners & talk about these things? maybe u can find where the problems stems frm? I have helped many of my female friends with certain issues, emotional scars do not have 2 be on-going 4 years of misery. Help yer partner by talking 2 them.

“why women always have to be right”, “Why do women fight so hard for independence when men are happy with the relationship”.”

we all have arguments over major 2 minor things, sumtimes u have 2 learn 2 back down. u the guy’s may be happy in yer relationship bt consider yer partner’s happiness also. women r nt always right & its hard 2 put tht point across. i understand tht situation , its hard 2 explain 2 someone thts stubborn at times. however, respect & compromise. learn those & u will be ok.

Thakmina B Says: Rate Comment? (0)
July 5th, 2008 at 3:59 pm

We often blame the way the world is due to lack of coexistence between people of different races, beliefs and so forth. However I think its more closer to home – while I am definitely for promoting rights and independence of women, my feminism is JUST about that: the promotion of female rights and not necessarily the wrongs of men. However, sexism does irk me a huge deal & most do get shot down by myself - by the art of communication/words/Islam of course :)

As an A-Level History student [well now ex-history student as of 3 weeks ago], there are visible differences regarding to how feminism was then in the suffragette movement to how it is now. It seems that the typical thing now is that it is not enough just to constantly prove yourself as a woman/man but while doing so, you have to do it in a street fighter ‘hadouken’ way: knocking your ‘contestant’ right down to the ground and ‘KO’ them – and thus the birth of a new punch bag. Having said that, men do the same too – and like Kia wrote in the article, you need humans who understand equality and realise there is no supremacy between genders – that is probably the difficult thing to find.

Females have fantastic characteristics. As do males. Instead of pushing each other off the bandwagon of ‘greatness’, I think these characteristics should muse – complimentary colours rock too :D There’s a balance that needs to be achieved, consisting of both men and women working together, each providing certain important elements – only then can we move forward rather than being stalemate in the same battle of who’s greater and using each other as a punch bag. We should strive to make movements not just for i.e. ‘womankind’ or indeed ‘mankind’, but for the whole of humanity.

Thad Mueller Says: Rate Comment? (0)
November 12th, 2008 at 10:54 pm

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